Dan Savage is my favorite advice columnist. I listen to his podcast every Tuesday. For the most part, I agree with his advice and even feel like he was better able to put into words the things I have felt before but have been unable to express it as eloquently. That was not the case for one of the calls I listened to on episode 223.
A gay woman, we'll call her Judy, called to say that she had a friend from high school that had become more conservative and religious over the years as she had become more active in queer community activism and more liberal. (A pretty common scenario, two high school friends drifting in different directions.) Judy said that her friend had become active in a church that felt that homosexuality was a sin (wow, what a surprise), but equal to all other sins. She told her friend that this offended her and her friend acknowledged that it upset her.
One night, Judy got drunk at the local Beaver Trap and decided to call her friend and tell her that they couldn't be friends anymore. I guess she left her a message because she didn't mention what her friend's response was, only that at some time later, she received a letter from her friend. The letter stated that she loves Judy and that she would love any woman that Judy loved. She asked to remain in contact, but expressed that she would respect her wishes in any case.
Judy then went on to say that her friend is an amazing woman and that she doesn't really think that her friend truly believes that homosexuality is a sin. She then asked Dan if she should maintain contact with this woman or not.
Dan, sounding pretty weak, started by saying that he was pro-friend and that he didn't want to tell her not to be this amazing woman's friend. He then went onto sarcastically refer to the woman as 'amazing' no less than four times. It was obvious that a big BUT was right around the corner. Just as he finished referring to her as an amazing person doing dreadful things, including child abuse because she is a youth group leader at her church, he said the if he were in her shoes he would "dump her and have nothing to do with this woman". He then went onto say that if she did want to remain in contact, that she should make it conditional. Tell her you won't speak to her until she reads Gay, Straight, and the Reason Why by Simon LeVay as well as some blog posts by John Shore, he said.
He said once again that we wasn't going to tell her to dump this woman, but that he would dump her. He mentioned that she was 'choosing not to walk away from bigotry so she is walking away from me'. He referred to her as a 'harmful, abusive, malicious person' due to her participation in the youth group at church and then said that Judy should help her realize that.
I absolutely wholeheartedly disagree with his advice to dump this friend. This would be no different if I were referring to an atheist being friends with a christian or any other minority person having a different minded friend, provided that no abuse was present.
1. Judy's friend is in no way being disrespectful to her. She even separated her personal belief regarding homosexuality and told her that she loved her and went onto say that she would love whoever Judy loved. That sounds like a caring, open minded, possibly moldable friend. That looks like opportunity to me to remain in contact with a person that you have a long history with and that perhaps could learn and grow to understand unfamiliar territory. Judy's friend obviously gives a shit about her and cares for the friendship or she wouldn't have pressed her to remain in contact. If she defriends her, she is missing an opportunity to have opened another person's mind simply by being herself; the person that Judy's friend cares for. If Judy's friend were berating her in any way, I would tell her to jerk that friendship back immediately.
2. Judy asked for this information. Her friend didn't come to her and talk to her about the terrible sin of homosexuality. So, in my opinion, Judy's friend may never have approached her with this. Her answer was solicited, plain and simple. I imagine more than a few of my friends might be disappointed in my honest opinion on certain matters if they asked. The same is true in reverse as well.
3. Judy's friend has a right to her opinion. Now, you'll not hear me defend any religious matter and I don't think her friend is in the right because I don't believe in sin, god, heaven, hell, etc. However, she can believe whatever she wants. If Judy doesn't respect her friend due to her beliefs, then I can understand her wanting to distance herself. But a person is more than just one thing and it sounded to me like she still liked and respected her friend. She even referred to her as an amazing woman so obviously there are other redeeming qualities about this woman despite her beliefs that are offensive to Judy.
4. How better to fight stereotypes and bigotry than to serve as an example. how can Judy, as Dan advised, show her how bigotted her friend is, if they are not in contact? I turn now to the 'angry atheist' scenario. While, I completely understand where the anger comes from, I am not and do not wish to be seen as an angry, disrespectful, hate all religious people, atheist. Atheists, and gays for that matter, are seen to be immoral people. What if I stayed away and defriended every person who was religious around me? How would they ever have the opportunity to change their mind on that stereotype if not exposed to a smart, well rounded, moral atheist that they cared for as a friend? Ideas need to be challenged and experiencing a bond with someone different is the best way to do that. I don't mean that Judy should get up in her friend's face at every chance to try to change her mind. Judy said that she didn't really believe that her friend believed that homosexuality was a sin. Judy should be that 'other' voice in her friend's life, that counter to the conservative that may prompt her to reexamine her ideas about gay people. Sure, she won't stop believing in god, but that is not what this is about.
I had a conversation with someone last night that advocated defriending. Among other things, their opinion was also that I, as an atheist, should even defriend my christian friends. They also went onto say that they are tired of people and are frustrated. I get this. I really do understand it, but I feel like that is no solution to the problem. Unity, equality, simple respect for another doesn't come from segregation. If we all retreated to our own separate islands with only those who were just like us, well...isn't that a breeding ground for extremism? If you never get to bounce off differing ideas to one another, how can you strengthen your own beliefs much less gain a deeper understanding of another's? What if you have a person in your life who is closeted and needs a role model? How are you going to be there to help them if you've already defriended them?
People are more than one thing. I am not just an atheist, or just bi-sexual, or just a woman, or just from the south, or just liberal. I am all of these things and more and I embrace all of them. I think more people should be less one dimensional and consider the positives that diversity can bring to themselves and others.
Self-segregation is no way to open people up to understanding minorities. The only way we will be able to grow and receive the same rights is to open up the lines of communications between people with differing opinions. No matter the minority you belong to, it is YOUR job to be the voice of reason and understanding when confronted with bigotry. You don't have to be loud and proud like some. Just being tolerant and mildly vocal, even just having one conversation with a person of a differing opinion can go a long way in changing the minds of others.
ReplyDeleteI understand. Nothing's ever gonna get better if you keeping on keeping to yourself. Either by being in the closet, or by sticking one foot out of the closet and ONLY hanging out with others of your 'kind.' Understanding is what everybody needs. In the church of gay, do the drag queens go on talking about how much they hate straight people? -No, they do not. Straight people are just as much welcomed part .
ReplyDeleteLet me build a scenario for you. A friend, a junior in high school at the time, went to a Methodist church. She loved her bible school teacher. She wanted her bible school teacher. She started confiding in her bible school teacher one night, after babysitting the teacher's child (she was a single mom) that she may like girls. She was testing the waters. Well, that didn't go over well. The teacher wanted to help the girl realize that it was just a phase and they needed to pray about it. Pray a lot so that she can realize that it was a sin and it can be corrected. The girl, totally upset and silenced about any further feelings she may have, got into a bad place in herself, praying didn't help. She spent some time at Bradford Medical Center after that. When she got back, the rest of her time in high school, she was called a lesbian. She had sex with as many guys as she could to squash those feelings. Today, 10 years later, she is still chasing after unavailable, closeted women. I digress. Kids are some times not emotionally ready for the kind of shit-storm that MIGHT happen when they come out. They are having these feelings of sexuality at the same time that they are having feelings of the need to belong and be a part of a group. Its an awkward time for them, and its a hard road when there are others publicly denouncing homosexuality, especially in rural areas. That's why Dan Savage tells these lone homos to move to a bigger city as soon as you can, so you can feel what a community feels like that is not so judgmental.
My rebuttal to you, is that it is not so cut and dry, yes or no. I respect that people need to UNDERSTAND, and that if we were all just open and OUT to everyone, that it would make this Earth a better place to live. I feel like maybe these thoughts of wanting to segregate die off a little with each generation, and the generations to come of gay kids are going to be more open, because people like Dan Savage are helping and telling them that, "It gets better." But it is a slow process, and a gay kid needs people around them that are like-minded in order to have a feeling of community and to feel open to come out. My friend confided in her bible school teacher about her feelings, and my friend had a VERY bumpy road to figuring out who she was. It is not so easy just to say one way or the other.
ReplyDeleteEach day, it does get a lot better, and I do see where you are coming from, that it is not worth it to break friendships because of their beliefs, even if those beliefs happen to negate something that you are. You're absolutely right, it should not have to break up friendships and family, but it still does. Its getting better, but we're not 100% there yet. It does sound like her conservative friend is a cool person. She still loves and respects her old high school buddy, but as of right now, that is a case-by-case situation, and it would help to be a little bit more liberal of a state. I agree with Dan, that newbie gay girl needs some time figuring some things out for herself before she is ready to still be friends with her bible babe. I'm sure they will reconnect once she is ready, but sometimes, IF YOU DON'T GROW UP IN THE MOST LIBERAL STATE IN THE NATION, sometimes, you need some time to figure some things out for yourself before you can be ready to accept and love those that believe that homosexuality is a sin, but might still be loving to you. It feels like a double negative to me, but I know they have history of friendship together, and I'm sure that just because her belief is different, that doesn't erase the years of good times. Those good memories will still be there when Judy decides to be her friend again, and that letter eased the way back into being friends, when she is READY.
Well, I can understand ALL of your points relating to coming out. COMPLETELY. However, I didn't look at this as a coming out story and we could write a thousand page blog on that subject I am sure. Coming out is WAY more complicated than this.
ReplyDeleteThis was more simple in my opinion. Judy is already out and seemed to be well adjusted to me. She didn't seem at all like she needed to figure anything aout about being gay or coming out. She just wanted to know if she should dump her friend and to me, that is much simpler than the big issues you adressed above.
I wasn't looking to write a blog to call all homos out the closet. I wanted to address specifically those who are out and more specifically, the opinion that they should walk away from an otherwise loving friendship albeit one with conflicting viewpoints. That feels a bit like retreat to me. I think as long as both parties are respectful, there's an opportunity there that could result in the positive end of things. I would be willing to say that most religious people would not go the extra mile to say that they would love whomever Judy loves. Walking away from the friend would be a wasted opportunity.
Olive, well said! I enjoyed reading this. All of the comments have been entertaining as well. You and Monte should start a blog where you can openly debate topics...call it "The Vagina Wars" I'd read it!
ReplyDelete